When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. 21n08 - PCM reprogram due to engine shudder. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Generally, Fords are extremely reliable vehicles and are cheap to repair. (CSP 21N03 and 21N08), Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum. X-Bull winch reviews | Where are they made? Thank you for choosing Ford! Even with these known issues, the Ford F150 has an annual maintenance cost estimate of about $858 per year. Manage Preferences - Had my cam phasers done back in July. BUT.I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the. and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low . If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Im meticulous about my oil changes, every 4000-5000 miles using Amsoil 100% synthetic. I also don't know if the issue with the Cap Phasers will cause other engine problems down the road. The 21N08 update is pretty new like just a couple of weeks old, so I do not know if that will fix the engine shudder or the cold start rattle. Question about cam phasers and pcm reprogram due to engine - Reddit Has anyone had FSA 21N08 reflash done yet? | Page 4 | Ford Expedition Forum additional VCT or engine timing related components not included in the Parts List. If you previously received the 21B10 PCM update at a Ford dealer and are now experiencing the engine shudder, you should take advantage of the PCM reprogram. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. First off, be aware that CarFax may show these recalls whether or not they have been done. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram for Cam Phaser Rattle, Rear Light Wiring Ford Tail Light Wire Colors, Top 6 Brake Pads for 2013 Ford F150 44: Find the Perfect Fit for Your Truck, 6 Best Mud Flaps for F150: Ultimate Guide for Truck Owners, Boost Your F150s Power: Best 9 Cold Air Intakes for 2017 Ecoboost Reviewed. Both will appear on the carfax of every affected VIN, which includes 2017 to early 2020 models. Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low percentage . 2. If Ford was serious about this they would offer customers compensation as Volkswagen did. Because they are such a popular model, Ford F150 owners have their own forums and subreddits devoted to their truck model. I will see what I can do to assist with this acceleration concern. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. Over the weekend I pulled over to the side of the road to get something out of the glove box and the truck stalled while I was idling in park. Contact Us - Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. The previous 21B10 customer satisfaction update was designed to send more oil to the cam phasers. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. I hope that you find everything you need on our website and that we can help guide you through all your automotive needs. That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Need some help ASAP Code P06B6/ Faulty PCM, Ford SVT Raptor General Discussions [GEN 1], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? If your Ford vehicle is experiencing an engine shudder, its important to get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. It was also discussed that the reprogramming could result in a shudder in the drive train which would require further work. Ford is offering a no-cost repair to reprogram the PCM on these vehicles suffering from engine shudder following the previous 21B10 update. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. What is this all about? If your car is experiencing engine shudder, it may be time for a PCM reprogram. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. . cam phaser rattles. Since we know what these issues are, you are safe to buy one of these Ford models. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder . Its usually most noticeable at idle, but can also be felt when accelerating. Cam phaser requires extensive effort and should only be attempted by those who are comfortable with working on cars. Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER; Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program issued. Contact Us - Im new to my 20, is this a TSB? It is an essential part of a cars powertrain system and is responsible for managing the fuel delivery, ignition timing, and transmission shifts to ensure optimal performance and efficiency of the car. I have a new to me 2017 SCREW that I purchased about a month ago. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners. In rare instances, some vehicles will experience an engine shudder after reprogramming the PCM with the 21B10 update. You are using an out of date browser. 5.7 Hemi Lifter Failure Symptoms Causes & Fixes, Lomax Tonneau Cover problems & troubleshooting, Truxedo Sentry CT Problems & Troubleshooting, UnderCover Armor Flex Problems & Troubleshooting, Retrax Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting, Peragon Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder . Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. We cover this rattle in detail and how to fix it for free. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. Im going to try to use it as a point of negotiation. In some cases, the engine may enter limp mode. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. As I read it (not saying I'm right), If you DON'T do the updates, I think Ford will not cover it in the future. Theyll be able to determine if the problem is due to a faulty PCM and can reprogram it accordingly. 21N08? - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums By addressing the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the cars performance and fuel efficiency can be improved. The F150 is the best-selling pickup truck in Americaand has been for 45 years. '22 camera issue made worse by dealer and others issues not resolved. I started Fordmasterx as an effort to combine my two passions writing and car ownership into one website. Was it stalling or did the auto shutoff just turn it off for a few seconds? Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing Any suggestions on what to do would be helpful? The below is copied and pasted from this thread: 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. By logging into your account, you agree to our. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. - Anyone have any information regarding the new recall notice I just received in the Ford App. If your Raptor is experiencing engine shudder, you may need to have the PCM (powertrain control module) reprogrammed. The PCM reprogramming process involves updating the software that controls the PCM. Dealer will. What is my next option? General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. At Ford Motor Company, we take vehicle safety and quality very seriously. Mine doesn't die like yours, but definitely a problem there. I scheduled the initial step of the Cam Phaser Reprogramming about three weeks ago. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Are you saying the vehicles primarily affected by the engine shudder were poorly maintain or ran low on oil? were completed so that you will be covered by the Ford warranty of 70k miles regarding cam phasers/VCT systems. Cam Phaser replacements costs at least $1200, depending on the shop. It involves surveying customers to identify areas where they are dissatisfied and then taking action to improve those areas. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Any shop with an IDS scan tool will be able to check your car for transmission codes. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM . I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. Your email address will not be published. They will uninstall and re-install the program using specialized equipment and software. Ford TSB 21N08 Make: Ford Number: 21N08 Date: 10/29/2021 Title: PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder Summary: In a very low percentage of the affected vehicles, an engine shudder may develop after receiving the PCM update provided in program 21B10. The cause of engine shudder can vary, but its often the result of an imbalance in the engine itself. PDF TO: SUBJECT: Customer Satisfaction Program 21N03 - Supplement #1 21N08 update, So I do not know if should pull the trigger or not. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. Hmm very interesting perhaps I should take it in and see if they will replace mine. If your engine does stall unexpectedly, try to pull over to a safe location before attempting to restart it. PCM reprogram due to engine shudder (Program 21n08) Cookie Policy - I ended up having it in the shop 4 times between 3 different dealerships and none of them could fix the issue. I'm late to the party but my 3.5L EcoBoost is doing this and it's getting worse. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. The PCM controls many aspects of the vehicles engine and transmission, including ignition timing, fuel injection, and shifting. In simple terms, engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt coming from the engine bay. No matter what the cause of your engine shudder may be, its always best to err on the side of caution and get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. JavaScript is disabled. I have an appointment to drop mine off in October. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Mine does this while at low rpms. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. One of the most common issues that you may face is to program 21n08 PCM to reprogram due to engine shudder. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. Proper maintenance is essential to keep a cars engine and transmission running smoothly. A manufacturer customer satisfaction program is a voluntary initiative undertaken by a company to improve customer satisfaction. 14. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. If your Ford Raptor is experiencing engine shudder, you may need to have the PCM reprogrammed. Trading start-up clicking for what sounds like a power neuter job and a "shudder" is nuts. Contact Us - Yesterday drove the truck from NY to Maine and all through the traffic out of NY truck had a strong vibration right around 1000 rpm and would settle at a full stop. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. However, if the vibrations are severe enough to cause your car to shake or rattle, then its definitely time to take it to a mechanic for further diagnosis. and if so an updated calibration will be applied. The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is..If you were in my position, would you pull the . . The first software update was performed on my 2018 three weeks ago and did not solve the issue. PDF TO - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration It is important to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue to maintain the performance and safety of the vehicle. What causes the engine shudder 21N08 issue? Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. I was told by my dealer that any FSA'S that have a "B" in them is a fix they are required to do. Transmission & Electrical Issue - Flashing D, N, and Gears, The wheel nuts for the Expedition 2015 are not compatible with the wheel wrench. So they basically work 15 hours but get paid only 10 hours. I'm assuming this is like a TSB. I read somewhere that adding an octane booster for a couple of tanks will help. If youre a Ford owner, you may be eligible for the Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10. Yep I have been told it just means that Ford is extending the warranty in regards to cam phasers to 75k I believe. Has anyone else experienced this after having the PCM updated? My name is Zachary Drumm! This program covers certain repairs that may be needed as a result of a software issue. This recall affects a variety of models from the 2012-2013 model years, including the Escape, Fusion, Taurus, Flex, Explorer, and F-150. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. I had 21B10 done last week on my '19. Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Positive Experience: Third Party Warranty Repair, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? The 21N03 was the one I was thinking of. Location. I had the first PCM recall done too, but have an engine shudder issue. While engine shudder can be alarming, its important to keep in mind that not all instances are created equal. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans, Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, Send a private message to VelocityBlue2020, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. This new customer satisfaction program is designed to reverse engine shudder caused by this previous PCM calibration. Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10 was an extended warranty coverage on engine cam phasers on vehicles that had received a PCM reflash prior to December 31, 2021. Ford TSB 21N08: Technical Service Bulletin for the 2019 Ford F-150. If the rpm is above 16-1800 it drives smooth as can be. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. I have used premium fuel and it didnt make any difference. Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. Thanks! Good thing I bought the extended warranty. Two versions of PCM calibrations - the regular one (21B10) and one for if you experience engine shudders with the regular one (21B10S2). Fords brilliant idea was to revert the programming back to the original level. MORE importantly, do it or not, it says they will only cover repairs until JAN 1, 2023. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. This removes the shudder. If you have one of these bikes, you should stop using it immediately and return it to Walmart for a full refund. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. At the time I scheduled service, I clarified that whether or not my vehicle had experienced a rattle at startup, that a reprogramming would be done. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. Pcv Valve Ford 4.2 Liter V6 Engine Diagram . (CSP 21N03 and 21N08) - Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. You must log in or register to reply here. How Much Does A Powertrain Control Module Reflash Cost? .any advice? Mine had only recently started rattling on startup. The goal of a manufacturer customer satisfaction program is to increase customer loyalty and repeat business. If you know how to fix it cheaply, then you might be able to get yourself a deal. The truck. @Stevec1129 I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I'm really hoping this new recall I see for my truck fixes the issue. Thats why were committed to quickly addressing any issues that may arise with our vehicles. One potential cause of engine shudder is an issue with the PCM, or powertrain control module. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) needs to have been first reprogrammed under the earlier customer satisfaction program 21B10. When there are problems with the transmission, it can cause the engine to shudder. If youve recently had your engine repaired or replaced, the new parts may not be compatible with the old PCM programming. If the Carfax shows that the vehicle that you are looking at buying has already received the 21B10, then you may need to take it in for the 21NO8 reflash to revert those settings. States PCM reprogram due to engine shudder, is this anyway related to 21B03. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. Id like to know whats causing this as well. Strange first post. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. All the VCT solenoid and spark plug tube seals require inspection, but not all require replacement. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. That said, after some pressuring, I had a Ford technician told me that it would likely cost around $300 to run the reprogramming on your PCM if you were to bring it in outside of warranty. Terms of Service - The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is.If you were in my position, would you pull the trigger on any of those trucks? develop an undesirable noise. FSA 21N08 | Ford Raptor Forum For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. These are technically not recalls but an extension of coverage if the customer has a concern and falls within the window of . By updating the software, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder 21N08 issue. By logging into your account, you agree to our. This seems like a red flag when combined with the recent "Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER" and "Program #21B10 POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE REPROGRAM FOR CAM PHASER RATTLE" repairs that show up on the carfax. I now have 85k miles. Advertising - Because of this issue, your engine may shake or shudder. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. Check with your dealer to see if your vehicle is eligible and make an appointment for service. I am confused about this. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Just extended the coverage. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Cookie Policy - Reboot. If you are an astute shopper, you might have found these issues before buying a vehicle. So i guess every 30k miles i am looking at $1200 bill..crazy this is not covered under warranty!!! However, for peace of mind, Ford is providing an extended warranty for customers who receive the PCM update under program 21B10 prior to December 31, 2021 and continue to experience cam phaser noise after receiving that PCM update, A cam phaser that has developed an undesirable noise does not affect the vehicle safety, performance, or emissions. Reaction score. Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend. From what I have gathered my dealership performed 21B10 on October 1st (NOT 21N08 which is supposed to be a factory roll back). Reliability is important to me. Generally, the timing chain, chain tensioners and water pump will be replaced at the same time, driving costs up to about $3,000. The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. I asked them to let me know if the Cam Phaser Rattle recall had ever been done to the vehicle and when I picked it up, they told me they did "RECALL 210B10" and the work order stated "210B10D Reprogram PCM to the latest level". Im a little more willing to whip out the AAA card for the extra fun factor and luxury of a Raptor. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram For Cam Phaser Rattle We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. I had 21B03 and knock on wood I haven't had any negative side effects like I have read about Summary of Related Cam Phaser Rattle Recalls: How Much Does Cam Phaser Replacement Out Of Warranty Cost? Hopefully, I'll be switching over from 11+ years of Land Cruiser and Jeep ownership. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? (2). For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. PCM Reprogram Due To Engine Shudder 21N08 - Tool Tally So I should probably find out what this transmission repair is. However, the increased oil in the cam phasers may affect engine performance, especially when cruising at a steady speed. If you search 21N08 you'll see that's the fix for it. You are using an out of date browser. At the worst, if the issue re-appears (low likelihood), you might end up out of pocket for a fairly affordable repair. I got it too. JavaScript is disabled. Diagram. Some specific causes of the engine shudder 21N08 issue may include-. Customer Satisfaction Program 21N08 Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder LABOR ALLOWANCES Description Labor Operation Labor Time Test drive to verify engine shudder and reprogram PCM to last revision. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index148/. If you own a Ford vehicle, theres a good chance that it has been recalled for a PCM reprogramming. (1). The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. But what exactly is engine shudder? This resolves the cam phaser noise on startup issue (you know, the annoying Ford cold start cam phaser rattle). Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. However, the engine shudder is quite noticeable. call your dealer and schedule an appointment. Everything seems relatively fine since, no check engine lights. Are CSP's only performed as needed? (CSP 21N03 and 21N08) I noticed mine is doing this as well. Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans . it's a software update to prevent a phaser . Advertising - 21n08 - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans The open recalls are unrelated to the transmission. If you click them and Ford is aware of this problem and has issued a recall to fix it. If your check engine light is on and youre experiencing engine shudder, your car may need a pcm reprogram. The benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue include: By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received the 21B10 flash. Shudder/Jerking Issue When Accelerating - Ford F150 Forum If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. Summary. Reprogram the PCM using the latest software level of the appropriate Ford . Sounds good to me. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. I called my dealership this morning and they said there was nothing to be done to the vehicle. My truck has 8600 miles on it currently. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. How can I verify my PCM is extended to 70k? We are talking about millions of trucks and SUVs! This issue can be uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the driver and passengers, and it can also lead to reduced performance and fuel efficiency.
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